Comments on: The Way of Ugliness

By: Sharon

Sharon — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 07:51:23 +0000

Just stumbled across this thread. What we all have to realise is, regardless of what St Jerome said in the context of his time, or Turtullian in the context of his time or Christopher West in the ….none of these people is the Magisterium of the Church. Seek out what the Church actually teaches about these matters and read the opinions of others but it is what the Church teaches in her official documents which are all we have to take notice of.

You might like to read: Jansenism the Liturgy and Ireland
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2010/bvanhove_jansenism_jan2010.asp

By: Compendium of TOB Posts « Mary Victrix

Compendium of TOB Posts « Mary Victrix — Tue, 05 Apr 2011 22:18:51 +0000

[...] The Way of Ugliness (November 6, 2010): A critique of an aspect of Christopher West’s multi-media event, “Fill These Hearts,” specifically his use of an anti-Catholic movie to illustrate his point that the Church has been filled with prudery prior to the Theology of the Body. [...]

By: Wade St. Onge

Wade St. Onge — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:43:52 +0000

I went to the article. According to attendee Robin Blier, ““It is a call to holiness and Theology of the Body is a path to get me there. This new knowledge helps us get beyond our struggles and see God’s will for us and our family.”

This “NEW” knowledge?

By: Joseph's Workshop

Joseph's Workshop — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 21:55:21 +0000

I thought this was an interesting article about the event.
Thank you for letting me share another perspective from people on the ground who attended the event. The photo highlights this beautiful moment where the celibate vocation was applauded so joyfully. There was a standing round of applause for several minutes! What a sight to see….
http://www.thericatholic.com/news/detail.html?sub_id=3634

By: Kevin Tierney

Kevin Tierney — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:38:43 +0000

Hailing from right outside Detroit, we are very provincial when it comes to our priests, and the biggest we are “provincial” about is Fr. Hardon.

Way I look at it, we can only promote him so highly as a way of attonement for giving the world Archbishop Gumbleton.

By: Mercury

Mercury — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 04:42:19 +0000

Kevin I think you are right. There HAS been a development of doctrine here, but like all such cases, it’s never a break with the past, but more of a refining and clarifying of previous tradition.

It makes sense, seeing as the twentieth century saw (and this one is still seeing) perhaps the greatest offensive against marriage and the family, as well as chastity in general.

Have you ever read what Fr. John Hardon had to say about marriage and marital love? Not “repressive” at all, and he was about as orthodox as they come.

By: Kevin Tierney

Kevin Tierney — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 19:41:58 +0000

West is indeed correct when he points to a fault mentality amongst certain patristics. There’s really no denying that.

Yet I think he errs when he ascribes this as a majority (or a significant minority) viewpoint. And I think he errs even further when he tries to say this attitude was prevalent in mainstream Catholicism before TOB, instead just certain segments (those unduly influenced by Jansenism, which the Church was still coming out of in the Pontificate of St. Pius X, whose reforms did much good in this area.)

As I’ve said a thousand times, West’s problem is that he accepts the characterization of the Church from the likes of Hefner and Kinsey.

They talk about how evil and repressive the Church was, and West says “YES THEY WERE! But now its so much better!”

All I can think of with such statements is “Had we been alive then, we would not have stoned the prophets”…….

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 02:34:44 +0000

I own West’s CD’s and I do intend on listening to them. I also need to read JPII’s actual teachings. That’s a first. I do know people who feel very blessed by West’s teachings so I’m not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water which is always so easy to do. However, I’ve read enough to know that West certainly has been given enough suggestions as to how to better clarify things that he seems to have refused to accept. Good ol’ foolish pride, seems to me.

So, your discussions on celibacy won’t be what makes me think West is right after all! But I do hear a lot of what the Shakers believed in what you say … as we know, they’re somewhat of a dying breed for obvious reasons! It used to be those faithful Catholics (and now the Muslims) that filled the earth.

By: Mercury

Mercury — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:38:07 +0000

And Kevin – as much strife as some of Jerome’s points give me, he is an EXCELLENT rhetorician. He’s actually fun to read – I wish I understood Latin better.

By: Wade St. Onge

Wade St. Onge — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:37:41 +0000

Mercury, without references to Jerome, I cannot tell whether or not he was really teaching these things. But you can discuss that with Kevin privately.

Tertullian wrote that after he became a heretic. He was no longer “Catholic” when he wrote that. It “doesn’t count”, so to speak.

I think I will bow out of this thread, because if I continue, I am going to drive people back to Christopher West! Jennifer already might be thinking that maybe West is right after all!